The question of Child-murder is still very much a live one… if those phrases can both exist in the same sentence. We are killing our children right and left, with surgery and pills. But the church in the ages before us considered what we call ‘birth control’ in much the same light as what we call ‘abortion’. To the extent that they were willing to call what Onan did ‘murder’.
You raise an important topic the church would do well to wrestle through both to ensure the blessing of children and the double blessing of knowing obedience.
I would only critique the use of Onan in support of your argument. While related to the topic of children, Onan's sin was deliberate disobedience to a direct command of God to raise up children in his dead brother's name. There is no indication that his act was otherwise sinful. The Catholic Church hangs far too much on this passage and misses the important point of obedience and caring for the widow and orphan.
I have a companion document to this, which I think I’ve already published but I don’t remember and I’m on the road, where I go back deep into the depths of the Protestant reformation church and show how they hang Owens sin onto the issue of birth control and abortion.Calvin goes so far as to call murder, and he’s not alone. Until about 1930 the entire Protestant church was basically on the same page here.
Oh, and by the way, it would’ve been a command from his father, not God. At least not directly by God that we have evidence of in scripture. The leveret law did not come until years after this.
That we know of, but now I have to go back to digging.
Under this system, a command from father was tantamount to a command from God, caveats understood. God certainly considered it to be so in this case. Thanks for the link.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by under this system. But certainly God commanded later that we should honour our fathers, which includes obedience. And I certainly believe that the law which was given to Moses is a universal applicability, and so was valid even before it was given.
But as for the specific point which made it sound as if he specifically violated a love Moses obviously no he didn’t. Because of not having been given yet.
That was unclear. Even before Moses, God had communicated his laws to his people. Honoring father and mother was no new command and the strength of the patriarchy long predates Sinai.
Regarding your argument, I take no exception to the spirit of it but am not pursued as to the letter. With no little trepidation I am unable to follow your great cloud of witnesses to the conclusion they draw regarding Onan's sin; nor Er's for that matter.
Be that as it may, I am in agreement that the church has not led its people to a more healthy, and obedient view of marriage and children.
You raise an important topic the church would do well to wrestle through both to ensure the blessing of children and the double blessing of knowing obedience.
I would only critique the use of Onan in support of your argument. While related to the topic of children, Onan's sin was deliberate disobedience to a direct command of God to raise up children in his dead brother's name. There is no indication that his act was otherwise sinful. The Catholic Church hangs far too much on this passage and misses the important point of obedience and caring for the widow and orphan.
I have a companion document to this, which I think I’ve already published but I don’t remember and I’m on the road, where I go back deep into the depths of the Protestant reformation church and show how they hang Owens sin onto the issue of birth control and abortion.Calvin goes so far as to call murder, and he’s not alone. Until about 1930 the entire Protestant church was basically on the same page here.
I agree on the travesty of abortion. Not there on birth control.
I will look forward to further discussions
https://open.substack.com/pub/vonwriting/p/contraception-is-immoral?r=6csnm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Oh, and by the way, it would’ve been a command from his father, not God. At least not directly by God that we have evidence of in scripture. The leveret law did not come until years after this.
That we know of, but now I have to go back to digging.
Under this system, a command from father was tantamount to a command from God, caveats understood. God certainly considered it to be so in this case. Thanks for the link.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by under this system. But certainly God commanded later that we should honour our fathers, which includes obedience. And I certainly believe that the law which was given to Moses is a universal applicability, and so was valid even before it was given.
But as for the specific point which made it sound as if he specifically violated a love Moses obviously no he didn’t. Because of not having been given yet.
That was unclear. Even before Moses, God had communicated his laws to his people. Honoring father and mother was no new command and the strength of the patriarchy long predates Sinai.
Regarding your argument, I take no exception to the spirit of it but am not pursued as to the letter. With no little trepidation I am unable to follow your great cloud of witnesses to the conclusion they draw regarding Onan's sin; nor Er's for that matter.
Be that as it may, I am in agreement that the church has not led its people to a more healthy, and obedient view of marriage and children.