Never Give Up, Never Surrender

Job 40:6-7  Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

2 Thessalonians 3:13  But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

Yes, yes, I know that ‘Never give up, never surrender’ is a quote, but this isn’t my ‘poems and quotes’ section so, yes, that’s from Galaxy Quest. Now, moving right along…

When we have an argument debate discussion on Substack or any other public forum, what is our goal? When you marshal your facts, arrange your points, check your logic (not your privilege) and fix all of the formatting issues… what do you hope will happen?

Ok, ‘read by millions’, ‘make lots of money’, ‘praised by everyone’, yes, yes, I get all of those dreams. But as for the argument specifically, what is your goal?

In light of certain recent experiences of mine, and a lot of other past experiences of mine, I’m afraid that the general goal is to ‘convince my opponent’. And when it looks like that goal isn’t going to be reached, they wander off and play in their sandbox.

I would like to encourage people to change their goal. To suggest that, perhaps, your opponent is not who you are trying to convince. And it isn’t your opponent you are writing for.

Not your opponent, the audience

1Peter 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Let’s face it, if you have gone out on the internet, and found someone invested enough to be willing to have a debate argument discussion with you on a given issue… you almost certainly aren’t going to convince them of your point of view. But both of you come with an audience, and probably some of them can be convinced.

Oh, it could happen. It’s happened to me. Indeed once they never even bothered to write their own post, they were convinced so quickly. But it isn’t the norm and, given that for every one opponent you have you might have a hundred or a thousand members of the audience, why worry about it? When a creationist and an evolutionist have a debate, or a baptist and a Presbyterian… do you think they are only worried, or even mostly worried, about whether their opponent is converted?

Write for your audience!

Not your opponent, yourself

Romans 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Even if you can’t convince your opponent, or your audience… how are you doing with yourself? Having read what you have written, and what they have written, are you geting a better handle on what you believe is true, and how to present it?

One of the biggest mistakes that people can make in online debates is to think that they are there to ‘win’. If you suddenly discover, after twenty posts back and forth, that you have been totally arguing the wrong thing the whole time… then say so! And say what you believe now. And why you believe it!

You might lose friends and offend people.. but is that more important than speaking the truth?

Write for yourself!

Not your opponent, God

Acst 7:1-2  Then said the high priest, Are these things so?

And [Stephen] said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken;

The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

You are not arguing with God. I hope. And I certainly hope you aren’t trying to convince God. But you are speaking, arguing, discussing, crying into the wilderness because what you are saying is important and true, even if no one is listening.

Write for God!

Introduction and Conclusion

This post is written because, over the last few years, I have had people bow out of arguments debates discussions dozens of times. And each time, I have been disappointed. Not just because I like, umm, discussing… but disappointed for them. They almost never bowed out because she just had a new baby, or he just got a new job. It was almost always because they either found themselves at very much the losing end of the, umm, discussion… or they suddenly or gradually discovered that I actually knew what I was talking about, my beliefs were solidly grounded, and I wasn’t suddenly going to come over to their side.

And I was disappointed for them because I felt they were doing themselves and our mutual audience a disservice. They were unable or unwilling to fully examine their own beliefs and the reasons underlying them… they held the truth so lightly that they would rather run away than be proved wrong.

No one is saying that one must spend all of one’s life in discussions on the internet; but surely this same principle applies in all of your relationships? Many things are too unimportant to even get in a discussion over. But of the things are are that important, is walking away ever the right answer? Abandoning the battlefield and going back to camp?

A lot has been said recently about the problem of ‘echo chambers’. I believe that abandoning the battlefield is one part of that problem.

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Thank you for reading Von’s Substack. I would love it if you commented! I love hearing from readers, especially critical comments. I would love to start more letter exchanges, so if there’s a subject you’re interested in, get writing and tag me!

Being ‘restacked’ and mentioned in ‘notes’ is very important for lesser-known stacks so… feel free! I’m semi-retired and write as a ministry (and for fun) so you don’t need to feel guilty you aren’t paying for anything, but if you enjoy my writing (even if you dramatically disagree with it), then restack, please! Or mention me in one of your own posts.

If I don’t write you back it is almost certain that I didn’t see it, so please feel free to comment and link to your post. Or if you just think I would be interested in your post!

If you get lost, check out my ‘Table of Contents’ which I try to keep up to date.

Thanks again, God Bless, Soli Deo gloria,

Von

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Links

Quote, Misquote, and Steelman: How and when to quote an opponent

Legalism: A less than useful word

Is God a Metaphor

Forcing yourself to believe

No Admittance Fallacy // Podcast Version

Gnostic and Insipid // Podcast Version: Marriage sermons that shy away from sex.

It's not a Game!

Steelmen and Inconsistencies