Things that are true in general, are sometimes not true in exceptional cases.
In the first place, we do have cases of actual 'intersex,' where an individual's genitals when they are born are unclear, or in even rarer cases, where they have both. This has been known for a very long time: the cases are mentioned, for example, in the Mishna, collected in about the year 200 CE. The Babylonian Talmud (complied in about 500 CE) describes another exception, people who look fully female, but do not have hymens and periods, and are most likely cases of XY individuals with complete Androgen Insensitive Syndrome. Jewish scholarship is mostly interested in which of these individuals count as male and which as female, for purposes of Torah obligations, which differ by sex.
And we do have adults who have honestly felt as though they are the opposite sex. One of the as-yet unsolved questions is, why boys almost always know themselves to be boys and girls almost always know themselves to be girls (ignoring the new phenomenon of adults instructing children to identify as the opposite); presumably it has something to do with hormones, and yet sometimes that doesn't appear to work. Now most of these individuals used to be very private about their identity dramas; yet another thing that has changed. I knew one man, for example, who decided that he was "really" female after he and his wife had five children; he spent some time discussing it with his minister, as I recall.
But the biggest problem is actually the cases where there is clear social pressure to identify as the trans; that happens both in crowds and with adult "help," and those are the places where I would say that solutions need to be directed. I am very skeptical that laws are the answer. Law tends to be among the least effective means of changing human behavior, as is often subject to fads. It can be fun to imagine what you might do if you could change laws to suit yourself, but it is basically useless.
Ultimately, the problem is more likely to be the massive falloff in religious commitment in our society, and that is where the biggest gains can probably be made. So I would focus on the reasons for that falloff and how to reverse it.
Certainly, intersex exists... but that is neither an argument for transgender (which obviously contradicts the idea of intersex)... nor is it a denial of the sexual binary. There cannot exist a person with both XY and XX chromosomes.
You then get into 'feelings', which are not just irrelevant to the conversation, but contradictory to it. Part of 'acting adult' is acting contrary to your feelings. Little children hit each other over the head with toy trucks because of their feelings, adult are taught to ignore such things.
I think you have the social pressure vs law issue backwards. The law is one way that we express social pressure. Failing to 'focus on it' is a failure to create social pressure.
No, I don't have that backward at all. Societies have three different ways to control behavior, the most effective being the taboo. Most people will very rarely violate one, even if they see an advantage in doing so, or cannot articulate a logical reason not to. Incest falls into this category, as does eating animals that we usually regard as pets.
Slightly less effective is social pressure, which tends to be created largely via rules followed by a group and consistent teaching about it. Religious rules are in this category, which is why religion can be so effective in establishing standards of behavior.
Least effective of all is laws passed by governments, which tend to be treated as obstacles, and rarely seen as based on anything to do with morality. People are quick to find loopholes in laws, and use social action to urge changes.
As for chromosomes, you do understand that individuals with complete Androgen Insensitive Syndrome (CAIS) are genotypically XY, but look in all ways like normal females until puberty, right? So do you go according to their bodies or their chromosomes?
I think you missed the point that I said you had backwards. Yes, taboos are extremely effective. Notice the lack of people wandering naked down the street even where it is legal.
But my point is that all forms of social pressure go together, they are not divorced from one another. A society that thinks it is taboo to walk down a street naked will, if enough people violate the taboo, pass a law. Along the way they will gossip etc.
(I don't really see 'religious rules' as in this set, as they tend to be cross cultural, but that's a discussion for another day). Laws are one way that a society has to express its preferences. As are lack of laws.
And of course I said that transgendering is already against God's law.a
The question of how to deal with intersex and CAIS, and physical castration via war or otherwise is a difficult question, and I do not suggest resolving it here. My statement is only that it has nothing to do with transgender.
The idea of transgender, at its core is, "I know that biologically I am A, I wish to be treated and act like B". Someone mentally ill or biologically problematic is simply in another category.
Repeating your abhorrence of transgender doesn't add to this discussion. The people who disagree aren't listening.
Laws may well be a way that society expresses its preferences, but they do not tend to be super effective in changing behavior. People did not stop drinking during Prohibition; the average speed on most Interstate highways is well above the posted limit, illegal drugs flood the streets, etc. People who are not religious don't care one whit about your opinion on G-d's law, other than to dismiss you as somebody not worth talking to.
If you care about the transgender problem, you have to come up with effective ways to deal with it, not just talk about how much you hate it.
They keep saying Gender is a social construct. Fine, then we need to put the term Sex back on government documents. Or "I don't care what your brain tells you, you are biologically and sexually xx or xy."
Things that are true in general, are sometimes not true in exceptional cases.
In the first place, we do have cases of actual 'intersex,' where an individual's genitals when they are born are unclear, or in even rarer cases, where they have both. This has been known for a very long time: the cases are mentioned, for example, in the Mishna, collected in about the year 200 CE. The Babylonian Talmud (complied in about 500 CE) describes another exception, people who look fully female, but do not have hymens and periods, and are most likely cases of XY individuals with complete Androgen Insensitive Syndrome. Jewish scholarship is mostly interested in which of these individuals count as male and which as female, for purposes of Torah obligations, which differ by sex.
And we do have adults who have honestly felt as though they are the opposite sex. One of the as-yet unsolved questions is, why boys almost always know themselves to be boys and girls almost always know themselves to be girls (ignoring the new phenomenon of adults instructing children to identify as the opposite); presumably it has something to do with hormones, and yet sometimes that doesn't appear to work. Now most of these individuals used to be very private about their identity dramas; yet another thing that has changed. I knew one man, for example, who decided that he was "really" female after he and his wife had five children; he spent some time discussing it with his minister, as I recall.
But the biggest problem is actually the cases where there is clear social pressure to identify as the trans; that happens both in crowds and with adult "help," and those are the places where I would say that solutions need to be directed. I am very skeptical that laws are the answer. Law tends to be among the least effective means of changing human behavior, as is often subject to fads. It can be fun to imagine what you might do if you could change laws to suit yourself, but it is basically useless.
Ultimately, the problem is more likely to be the massive falloff in religious commitment in our society, and that is where the biggest gains can probably be made. So I would focus on the reasons for that falloff and how to reverse it.
Certainly, intersex exists... but that is neither an argument for transgender (which obviously contradicts the idea of intersex)... nor is it a denial of the sexual binary. There cannot exist a person with both XY and XX chromosomes.
You then get into 'feelings', which are not just irrelevant to the conversation, but contradictory to it. Part of 'acting adult' is acting contrary to your feelings. Little children hit each other over the head with toy trucks because of their feelings, adult are taught to ignore such things.
I think you have the social pressure vs law issue backwards. The law is one way that we express social pressure. Failing to 'focus on it' is a failure to create social pressure.
No, I don't have that backward at all. Societies have three different ways to control behavior, the most effective being the taboo. Most people will very rarely violate one, even if they see an advantage in doing so, or cannot articulate a logical reason not to. Incest falls into this category, as does eating animals that we usually regard as pets.
Slightly less effective is social pressure, which tends to be created largely via rules followed by a group and consistent teaching about it. Religious rules are in this category, which is why religion can be so effective in establishing standards of behavior.
Least effective of all is laws passed by governments, which tend to be treated as obstacles, and rarely seen as based on anything to do with morality. People are quick to find loopholes in laws, and use social action to urge changes.
As for chromosomes, you do understand that individuals with complete Androgen Insensitive Syndrome (CAIS) are genotypically XY, but look in all ways like normal females until puberty, right? So do you go according to their bodies or their chromosomes?
I think you missed the point that I said you had backwards. Yes, taboos are extremely effective. Notice the lack of people wandering naked down the street even where it is legal.
But my point is that all forms of social pressure go together, they are not divorced from one another. A society that thinks it is taboo to walk down a street naked will, if enough people violate the taboo, pass a law. Along the way they will gossip etc.
(I don't really see 'religious rules' as in this set, as they tend to be cross cultural, but that's a discussion for another day). Laws are one way that a society has to express its preferences. As are lack of laws.
And of course I said that transgendering is already against God's law.a
The question of how to deal with intersex and CAIS, and physical castration via war or otherwise is a difficult question, and I do not suggest resolving it here. My statement is only that it has nothing to do with transgender.
The idea of transgender, at its core is, "I know that biologically I am A, I wish to be treated and act like B". Someone mentally ill or biologically problematic is simply in another category.
Repeating your abhorrence of transgender doesn't add to this discussion. The people who disagree aren't listening.
Laws may well be a way that society expresses its preferences, but they do not tend to be super effective in changing behavior. People did not stop drinking during Prohibition; the average speed on most Interstate highways is well above the posted limit, illegal drugs flood the streets, etc. People who are not religious don't care one whit about your opinion on G-d's law, other than to dismiss you as somebody not worth talking to.
If you care about the transgender problem, you have to come up with effective ways to deal with it, not just talk about how much you hate it.
They keep saying Gender is a social construct. Fine, then we need to put the term Sex back on government documents. Or "I don't care what your brain tells you, you are biologically and sexually xx or xy."