If you get a chance, you can tell me if the invisible post works. I'm working on a glossary for Contract Marriage, but I don't want it to be a visible post all by itself that gets sent to people and everything. So I played around with the settings and I THINK the only way to get to the glossary post is to click on a link in a Contract Marriage post.
Hoping it works cause I will want to use it for my other fiction etc.
I have scanned two Contract Marriage posts and I see buttons for support, subscribe, comment, share, but I don't see any kind of link to a glossary. I may need more instruction. I will keep poking around and et you know.
I have read through your intro and another four of your posts, and though your Contract Marriage story intrigued me at first, I a sorry to say I find we are polar opposites in our thinking. So sorry. but I will unsubscribe.
No problem. I actually find it fun to be subscribed to some people I disagree with. You read through four of Contract Marriage? I didn't even think I had four up!
Did you change names? Or am I just remembering wrong, since most of the book seems to be from the daughter's perspective? I think this reads quite a bit stiffer than the later chapters do.
I do know that there is no way that I would have taken that job, no matter how much of a promotion it was.
The story has mostly been written from the standpoint of the daughter, who is still in school. However, there will be a few chapters written from other viewpoints.
I hadn’t looked at which chapter you were commenting on. This is the first chapter and is from the perspective of the mother. Most other chapters will be for the perspective of the daughter.
Well, once you give it some thought, if you also succeed in giving a harsh review, we can continue the process. I can start at the beginning of one of your works and harsh away at it.
I hope I have made my goal clear. I think your writing is good… but I assume you want it to be better. To that end it is helpful to have an honest mirror… someone who can look at it and say what they think, find flaws or possible flaws and reveal them… so that you can get better and better.
That’s what I would like people to do for me, but all too many people just drive on by, and the ones that stop just say, “That’s nice". Or, “That’s just not up my alley” or somesuch.
Well, I get where you’re coming from. I think it would be a very valuable exercise for me too. And I agree about an honest mirror.
I wish I had time to play with you. But as I said before my free time is very limited for the next month or so.
I’ll give your first chapter a second look. And I’ll try my hand at a review in the same vein, but I can’t promise to do more than that right now. I hate breaking a commitment. I’d rather disappoint you from the get-go than ruin any chance at a future relationship by letting you down once I’ve made promises I knew I couldn’t keep.
I’m sure you can understand. Maybe one day soon I’ll be able to spend more time on this and we can do a real back and forth on a larger project. You seem quite a bit more experienced than me, I’d love to get your opinion on some stuff.
Well, if I'm being honest, it's not so much overthinking as not having made the time right now. I read it once, but haven't touched it yet beyond that. Been busy with other things. Once I've had a chance to give it a second look at least I'll think about compiling some notes. But thanks for the deadline. I'll take the week. Send you something as soon as I have it.
My immediate reaction is--yes I like this. There are things about it that irritate me, but I'm not commenting on that now. I see what you mean by vibrant dialogue. I'm sorry but you won't find much of that in my stories. I SUCKed at dialogue when I started, I probably still do, though I like to think I've improved a little, but mine is nothing like this, nor this fast paced. I would like more context around it if I had to state my preference. What are they doing? What does the office look like? I like to feel grounded in the conversation, still immersed in the setting you know? I think I see what you mean about description. Anyway. that's all I have time for right now. Not too bad for a second reading, but it's getting late. I'll give it at least one more go, maybe try for a little more complete. In the meantime, I can give you something of mine if you like to chew on, with a little more dialogue. dm me for the link if you want it.
Ok, so in an effort to introduce a little description, I wrote this just now. You should be able to see where these additions fit in the story:
But instead she was distracted by the office and the secretary. If she succeeded she would… well, no. She would have neither office nor secretary, at least not a secretary that sat in an outer office scheduling holds. But she would have better… A position as Trade Master and as supervisor for all of the contract employees on all of Libertas! Not that there were that many… and would get to do the bulk of her work in a gorgeous house… in her pyjamas if she wished!
Supervisor Trentin had obviously worked hard at his office decor. All of the walls were done up with… she sniffed… yes, it was aromatic Tartaraa wood… that beautiful light red and that soothing smell. And the planks practically looked had hewn. The whole effect was to introduce a very archaic and calming feel. Which was probably helpful, but she was still nervous.
She tried to force herself back to work but all she had done was stare at the introductory page of the proposal she was working on, not even scrolling down as her eyes kept reading the text but her brain refused to process it.
“Cit Fenstra, the supervisor is ready for you now.”
“Thank you, Cit Juaa,” Fenstra said and, closing her wristcomp went through the door into the office. The inner office, which was done up in the same way as the outer, and even had an archaic fireplace!
“Cit Fenstra,” the supervisor said, rising and bowing ‘willingness to help’ and waving her to a seat. “I don’t believe we have met before?”
Okay, I’ve made some time to give this another proper look with my eye on critique. First off I’ll say, I won’t try to copy yours. Sorry I’m not that person. I wouldn’t know how to begin to critique plot or characterization or grammar and writing for anything worthwhile. I’m simply not experienced enough. But I’ll give you my opinion on what I liked and didn’t and how I think this thing could improve.
First off, it’s a pretty good hook. Not much action, but I wanted more of the story by the end. I immediately wondered about this world and how it works and why getting this job was so important to Fenstra and what it entails...
Secondly, one small criticism—I think you focus way to much on fashion. You could stand to add a detail or two about hair color or features. Specially with the beauty room setting, it would fit. Even if it isn’t important to the story, a woman notices such things. It would make her seem more real. Looking at oneself in the mirror is the perfect opportunity for that. It would also give an indication of her age, which only becomes apparent at chapter 3 (I think) and even then is ambiguous.
Since you say you’re not so great at description, I feel I should offer some suggestions—she could maybe lament the lines around her eyes, or a grey hair or two poking through, or at least give some indication of hair color or complexion.
As it is, Fenstra could be twenty or fifty here, she could have crooked teeth or warts on her nose or blue or green spikey or curly or flat hair there’s no way to tell. And it would suit the scene to add it. She could pay attention to the other woman’s look and compare herself to her at least a little, in ways other than their choice of dress. What you do say, hints at respect at least so that’s something.
Third, for all the work you’ve done worldbuilding, (and I see it—wow) this scene comes across as grey and generic. The only color I see is in the clothing. There’s not much to ground the reader in the setting. The choice of decor with sensory detail you showed in one of your replies I got somewhere, could really enhance the setting and ground the conversation, though it could do with a polish if you do decide to incorporate anything permanent.
Fourth, as I said before—I like the dialogue. It showcases the characters quite well. Between Fenstra and Juaa, it’s formal and functional and perfectly appropriate. Between Fenstra and the supervisor it’s awesome.
I get the image of a bubbly, slightly older gentleman, but again, some indication of his looks would be helpful. Maybe haircut, or build or attire. Women notice.
Lastly, I want to compliment you on your glossary links. That’s an awesome idea and they do work, but if you’ll allow me to show off a little—If I was going to do a glossary I would style each word as a heading within the glossary post so you can link to it directly instead of making the reader scroll through the whole thing to find that specific word that they are looking for.
I know, I know. That’s a WHOLE LOT of work. Especially now but maybe something to keep in mind if you ever start a new glossary for a new project. It’s just one of those user experience things, not at all important. And very much a smarty-pants young person kind of request.🫢Most people wouldn’t even notice or care. The fact that there’s a glossary at all is great, and the way you linked to it throughout is awesome. It must have been a ton of work and shows real dedication. It’s just that I know it can be done… Never mind forget I said anything. I might just delete this part of my comment.
Okay that’s it. MY version of a critique… I’m curious about your opinion on my opinion. Maybe we can do this again sometime.
1) Your biggest weakness in critiquing is that you think you are weak and critiquing and so you second guess yourself or whatever. You did this absolutely right: focus on your strengths! Don't go on and on about 'I'm not very good at...'. Mention it and go on and comment on what you know!
2) Don't ever delete something! Now you have me wondering if you had several other things as good as your glossary idea and you deleted them!!! Put them back in! I knew that about links but I didn't when I wrote this and I completely forgot. Indeed I forget about the glossary half the time when I write. Which makes it a lot less valuable, since I don't even link to it at all, let alone keep building it up!!!
3) Moving forward as you write lots more of these wonderful critiques for me (notice what I did there?) and I write critiques for you...
My rule is I want my reader to be able to imagine the character for themselves, except where it affects the story. So I/we will have to be careful not to over describe the character. Which still leaves a LOT of things open, that I never do. Like the grey hair, being short, etc. I can definitely weave that into the story... the girl who is so short that she can't reach things, the girl who is so tall that it puts the boys off. (We knew a girl once who was super tall (for a girl) and she wore high heels! I did NOT get that logic.
4) I can't do ages for a couple reasons. One is because I want them to come out in how the character acts. Second because I want to give one impression and then have the audience shocked with a later impression. Third because they are on another planet, so the years aren't the same length.
Again, this was Great!! Next time just plunge in and do what you do so well and don't worry about what you don't do as well!! You did this really well!!
Thanks Von. There are so many compliments, and great points here, I don't know where to start. I knew you probably had your reasons for leaving things out. I do that as well. And I know you already said you prefer not to color your readers' visualizations of your characters but you can at least give some indication without going into too much detail. Specifically - 1. I will try not to second guess myself in future. 2. I didn't delete anything. 3. Yes, I see what you did. 4. About ages, you can indicate without using years or being too specific--young child, adolescent, middle aged, frail, energetic, voluptuous, etc. 2. Again, yes, I like description I'm good at it. and I also keep my thesaurus handy. Let the reader make of those vague describing words what they will. It just makes for a more vivid character in my opinion, and vivid is good, no?
Sounds interesting, Von. I will give it a try.
Feel very free to comment as you go along. It is very much a work in progress.
It may take me a little while to catch up. I am in, but I have taken on a few too many subscriptions. And I still need time to write!.
If you get a chance, you can tell me if the invisible post works. I'm working on a glossary for Contract Marriage, but I don't want it to be a visible post all by itself that gets sent to people and everything. So I played around with the settings and I THINK the only way to get to the glossary post is to click on a link in a Contract Marriage post.
Hoping it works cause I will want to use it for my other fiction etc.
I have scanned two Contract Marriage posts and I see buttons for support, subscribe, comment, share, but I don't see any kind of link to a glossary. I may need more instruction. I will keep poking around and et you know.
I have read through your intro and another four of your posts, and though your Contract Marriage story intrigued me at first, I a sorry to say I find we are polar opposites in our thinking. So sorry. but I will unsubscribe.
No problem. I actually find it fun to be subscribed to some people I disagree with. You read through four of Contract Marriage? I didn't even think I had four up!
I read both Contract Marriage posts, the intro and three other posts about guns, womens rights, marriage, etc.
Did you change names? Or am I just remembering wrong, since most of the book seems to be from the daughter's perspective? I think this reads quite a bit stiffer than the later chapters do.
I do know that there is no way that I would have taken that job, no matter how much of a promotion it was.
The story has mostly been written from the standpoint of the daughter, who is still in school. However, there will be a few chapters written from other viewpoints.
I hadn’t looked at which chapter you were commenting on. This is the first chapter and is from the perspective of the mother. Most other chapters will be for the perspective of the daughter.
Interesting. I'll have to give this one some thought.
Well, once you give it some thought, if you also succeed in giving a harsh review, we can continue the process. I can start at the beginning of one of your works and harsh away at it.
I hope I have made my goal clear. I think your writing is good… but I assume you want it to be better. To that end it is helpful to have an honest mirror… someone who can look at it and say what they think, find flaws or possible flaws and reveal them… so that you can get better and better.
That’s what I would like people to do for me, but all too many people just drive on by, and the ones that stop just say, “That’s nice". Or, “That’s just not up my alley” or somesuch.
Not helpful.
Well, I get where you’re coming from. I think it would be a very valuable exercise for me too. And I agree about an honest mirror.
I wish I had time to play with you. But as I said before my free time is very limited for the next month or so.
I’ll give your first chapter a second look. And I’ll try my hand at a review in the same vein, but I can’t promise to do more than that right now. I hate breaking a commitment. I’d rather disappoint you from the get-go than ruin any chance at a future relationship by letting you down once I’ve made promises I knew I couldn’t keep.
I’m sure you can understand. Maybe one day soon I’ll be able to spend more time on this and we can do a real back and forth on a larger project. You seem quite a bit more experienced than me, I’d love to get your opinion on some stuff.
Until then. Thanks again Von.
I’m 63 years old. If I’m not more experienced I’ll be shocked :)
You might be overthinking this. If you were to read the chapter, and then listen to it a few times while doing the dishes etc.
And keep a notebook with you, and jot down random bits that you didn’t like.
You could do that over a week or so, then type the random notes in and…
not only would that be a better critique than 90% of people give, I will wager good money it will improve your writing
AND
I can pretty much guarantee that your page of notes will have a lot of notes about YOUR writing on it too.
And a shopping list, probably. That’s what happens to me, anyway.
Well, if I'm being honest, it's not so much overthinking as not having made the time right now. I read it once, but haven't touched it yet beyond that. Been busy with other things. Once I've had a chance to give it a second look at least I'll think about compiling some notes. But thanks for the deadline. I'll take the week. Send you something as soon as I have it.
BTW I’m not sure I sent you the right link for the second chapter. I had to record it a second time:
https://vonwriting.substack.com/p/endrek-contract-second-edition
My immediate reaction is--yes I like this. There are things about it that irritate me, but I'm not commenting on that now. I see what you mean by vibrant dialogue. I'm sorry but you won't find much of that in my stories. I SUCKed at dialogue when I started, I probably still do, though I like to think I've improved a little, but mine is nothing like this, nor this fast paced. I would like more context around it if I had to state my preference. What are they doing? What does the office look like? I like to feel grounded in the conversation, still immersed in the setting you know? I think I see what you mean about description. Anyway. that's all I have time for right now. Not too bad for a second reading, but it's getting late. I'll give it at least one more go, maybe try for a little more complete. In the meantime, I can give you something of mine if you like to chew on, with a little more dialogue. dm me for the link if you want it.
Ok, so in an effort to introduce a little description, I wrote this just now. You should be able to see where these additions fit in the story:
But instead she was distracted by the office and the secretary. If she succeeded she would… well, no. She would have neither office nor secretary, at least not a secretary that sat in an outer office scheduling holds. But she would have better… A position as Trade Master and as supervisor for all of the contract employees on all of Libertas! Not that there were that many… and would get to do the bulk of her work in a gorgeous house… in her pyjamas if she wished!
Supervisor Trentin had obviously worked hard at his office decor. All of the walls were done up with… she sniffed… yes, it was aromatic Tartaraa wood… that beautiful light red and that soothing smell. And the planks practically looked had hewn. The whole effect was to introduce a very archaic and calming feel. Which was probably helpful, but she was still nervous.
She tried to force herself back to work but all she had done was stare at the introductory page of the proposal she was working on, not even scrolling down as her eyes kept reading the text but her brain refused to process it.
“Cit Fenstra, the supervisor is ready for you now.”
“Thank you, Cit Juaa,” Fenstra said and, closing her wristcomp went through the door into the office. The inner office, which was done up in the same way as the outer, and even had an archaic fireplace!
“Cit Fenstra,” the supervisor said, rising and bowing ‘willingness to help’ and waving her to a seat. “I don’t believe we have met before?”
Okay, I’ve made some time to give this another proper look with my eye on critique. First off I’ll say, I won’t try to copy yours. Sorry I’m not that person. I wouldn’t know how to begin to critique plot or characterization or grammar and writing for anything worthwhile. I’m simply not experienced enough. But I’ll give you my opinion on what I liked and didn’t and how I think this thing could improve.
First off, it’s a pretty good hook. Not much action, but I wanted more of the story by the end. I immediately wondered about this world and how it works and why getting this job was so important to Fenstra and what it entails...
Secondly, one small criticism—I think you focus way to much on fashion. You could stand to add a detail or two about hair color or features. Specially with the beauty room setting, it would fit. Even if it isn’t important to the story, a woman notices such things. It would make her seem more real. Looking at oneself in the mirror is the perfect opportunity for that. It would also give an indication of her age, which only becomes apparent at chapter 3 (I think) and even then is ambiguous.
Since you say you’re not so great at description, I feel I should offer some suggestions—she could maybe lament the lines around her eyes, or a grey hair or two poking through, or at least give some indication of hair color or complexion.
As it is, Fenstra could be twenty or fifty here, she could have crooked teeth or warts on her nose or blue or green spikey or curly or flat hair there’s no way to tell. And it would suit the scene to add it. She could pay attention to the other woman’s look and compare herself to her at least a little, in ways other than their choice of dress. What you do say, hints at respect at least so that’s something.
Third, for all the work you’ve done worldbuilding, (and I see it—wow) this scene comes across as grey and generic. The only color I see is in the clothing. There’s not much to ground the reader in the setting. The choice of decor with sensory detail you showed in one of your replies I got somewhere, could really enhance the setting and ground the conversation, though it could do with a polish if you do decide to incorporate anything permanent.
Fourth, as I said before—I like the dialogue. It showcases the characters quite well. Between Fenstra and Juaa, it’s formal and functional and perfectly appropriate. Between Fenstra and the supervisor it’s awesome.
I get the image of a bubbly, slightly older gentleman, but again, some indication of his looks would be helpful. Maybe haircut, or build or attire. Women notice.
Lastly, I want to compliment you on your glossary links. That’s an awesome idea and they do work, but if you’ll allow me to show off a little—If I was going to do a glossary I would style each word as a heading within the glossary post so you can link to it directly instead of making the reader scroll through the whole thing to find that specific word that they are looking for.
I know, I know. That’s a WHOLE LOT of work. Especially now but maybe something to keep in mind if you ever start a new glossary for a new project. It’s just one of those user experience things, not at all important. And very much a smarty-pants young person kind of request.🫢Most people wouldn’t even notice or care. The fact that there’s a glossary at all is great, and the way you linked to it throughout is awesome. It must have been a ton of work and shows real dedication. It’s just that I know it can be done… Never mind forget I said anything. I might just delete this part of my comment.
Okay that’s it. MY version of a critique… I’m curious about your opinion on my opinion. Maybe we can do this again sometime.
Ok, first, this is great!
Now for the harsh critique of your critique :)
1) Your biggest weakness in critiquing is that you think you are weak and critiquing and so you second guess yourself or whatever. You did this absolutely right: focus on your strengths! Don't go on and on about 'I'm not very good at...'. Mention it and go on and comment on what you know!
2) Don't ever delete something! Now you have me wondering if you had several other things as good as your glossary idea and you deleted them!!! Put them back in! I knew that about links but I didn't when I wrote this and I completely forgot. Indeed I forget about the glossary half the time when I write. Which makes it a lot less valuable, since I don't even link to it at all, let alone keep building it up!!!
3) Moving forward as you write lots more of these wonderful critiques for me (notice what I did there?) and I write critiques for you...
My rule is I want my reader to be able to imagine the character for themselves, except where it affects the story. So I/we will have to be careful not to over describe the character. Which still leaves a LOT of things open, that I never do. Like the grey hair, being short, etc. I can definitely weave that into the story... the girl who is so short that she can't reach things, the girl who is so tall that it puts the boys off. (We knew a girl once who was super tall (for a girl) and she wore high heels! I did NOT get that logic.
4) I can't do ages for a couple reasons. One is because I want them to come out in how the character acts. Second because I want to give one impression and then have the audience shocked with a later impression. Third because they are on another planet, so the years aren't the same length.
Again, this was Great!! Next time just plunge in and do what you do so well and don't worry about what you don't do as well!! You did this really well!!
Thanks Von. There are so many compliments, and great points here, I don't know where to start. I knew you probably had your reasons for leaving things out. I do that as well. And I know you already said you prefer not to color your readers' visualizations of your characters but you can at least give some indication without going into too much detail. Specifically - 1. I will try not to second guess myself in future. 2. I didn't delete anything. 3. Yes, I see what you did. 4. About ages, you can indicate without using years or being too specific--young child, adolescent, middle aged, frail, energetic, voluptuous, etc. 2. Again, yes, I like description I'm good at it. and I also keep my thesaurus handy. Let the reader make of those vague describing words what they will. It just makes for a more vivid character in my opinion, and vivid is good, no?
Yes, I can. And I will. I am already thinking up scenes :)